Dell Ships Ubuntu 9.04 Systems Ahead of Windows 7 Launch
Dell’s U.S. website has started offering Ubuntu 9.04 on a Mini 10V and Inspiron 15N laptop. The move comes less than two months before Microsoft’s Windows 7 launch — essentially reinforcing Dell’s commitment to Ubuntu in some targeted markets. But will Dell pre-load Ubuntu 9.04 on a desktop PC? Here’s some analysis.
First the facts: Dell’s U.S. web site (www.Dell.com/Ubuntu) has been redesigned in recent days to highlight a netbook and notebook with Ubuntu 9.04 preinstalled. Until now, Dell only offered Ubuntu 8.x options. However, the redesigned site does not feature any Ubuntu desktop PCs. Also, marketing graphics on the Dell site are netbook and notebook specific.
Still, a source close to Dell and Canonical continues to tell WorksWithU that Dell is preparing more Ubuntu Systems, as WorksWithU reported on August 28. In the meantime, niche Ubuntu PC makers such as System76 and ZaReason continue to expand their product portfolios.
The Bigger Picture
Dell took a few lumps in July and August 2009 from some Ubuntu users, who complained the PC giant was scaling back its Ubuntu offerings. Dell’s PR team assured readers that a new Ubuntu-equipped desktop PC would debut sometime in August — but so far that system has failed to materialize.
Still, a source close to Canonical and Dell says multiple new Ubuntu systems from Dell are in the works.
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So…the unnamed source..that may or may not be an employee of Dell…when you say they say “multiple new” systems did they specifically refer to desktop systems at any point in your private off-the-record conversations?
-jef
yes to desktops, Jef, but I don’t have a firm ship date. Conversation was on the record, not for attribution.
Mmmm it seems like the Mini is still shipping with 8.04 (only the traditional laptop ships with 9.04). Or what did I miss?
Leo: Sorry I didn’t catch that important short-term fact. Thanks for pointing it out. But stay tuned. 9.04 will be Dell’s standard Ubuntu build soon, from what I hear.
Leo:
I concur. But more interestingly… the 9.04 laptop comes with 30 day starter support! Which I am assuming is this:
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/services/starter
That’s a very good thing to see. OEMs like Dell need to include the end-user services that Canonical is offering at time of purchase for them to really gain traction..and to help sustain Canonical as a revenue stream.
Hopefully Dell will go further and include Canonical’s other end-user support levels beyond Starter in the system customization menu and help Canonical up-sell those higher end services to customers who will benefit from them.
I would have liked to see the online desktop training that Canonical offers also show up in Dell’s system customization as a value-add purchase.
http://www.ubuntu.com/training/e-learning/desktop
I don’t think enough potential system purchasers know about the online desktop training that Canonical has put together.
And that’s a shame. Its exactly the sort of thing that can help a non-traditional linux user overcome some of the unease in using an Ubuntu system for the first few days of having it at home that is borne from basic unfamiliarity. But because its a for-pay service product it really needs to be something that OEMs put in front of customers as a purchase option..or else people are going to have a hell of a time learning about it. Because its an out of pocket expense you don’t see Ubuntu advocates and community helpers suggesting it to new users who find their way into peer help channels like the forums. OEMs partners are the best chance for Canonical to put their for-pay end-user oriented services in front of people.
-jef
@Jef: good point. I really see no downside on doing that, it’s only upside (for all parts involved: customers, Canonical, and even Dell, because a happy customer is the best that can happen)
@Joe: maybe this is not the best Venue, but before I forget. Would it make sense to have a section in WWU where we (readers) can browse for netbook deals, laptop deals, etc for hardware using Ubuntu preinstalled. Something along the lines of dealnews (or similar “tech bargains” sites), but ubuntu centric. It seems relevant to the site, and would probably attract lots of visitors.
Leo: Thanks for offering up a great set of ideas. I can’t make any promises since our developers already have a full plate of enhancements for the next few months. However, we take reader feedback such as yours very seriously. And we’ll put it on our list of site enhancement considerations for Q4 2009.
Thanks for reading, Leo, and for offering up some suggestions.
It seems that the XP version costs the same as the Ubuntu version…unless I am missing something. It would appear that getting the XP version (even though you intend to use Linux on it) gets you a Windows license thrown in free…this suggests that 1) Dell pockets the savings or 2) MSoft is throwing in software that would need to be purchased later…e.g. MS office 60 day version. So customers wanting to use Linux would be better off purchasing the Windows version.
My problem with this is that this would give Dell and the rest of the world a distorted impression of XP vs Linux sales. Some way of finding this data should be available…or Dell should include both OSes…one installed one on CD. Anybody any idea of how XP performs in a virtual machine on a mini10v?
Would just like to point out that although it is not offered on the http://www.dell.com/ubuntu page that you can customize the dellxp2 13 with Ubuntu on Dells’s website.
sorry meant dell xps 13
I have to say this small and insignificant gesture from Dell means nothing. Ubuntu 9.04 has been available for months now. In fact if Canonical keeps to their 6 monthly release cycle Ubuntu 9.10 with be bearing down on us next month.
Finaly shipping Ubuntu 9.04 5 months late doesn’t make me think Dell are committed to Ubuntu.
In the UK the Ubuntu models we have available are the Inspiron Mini 10v and the Inspiron Mini 9. Both essentially the same machine and at the time of writing both are still being sold with Ubuntu 8.04.
Dell it would seem are forgetting they are a multi-national global corporation. Which is actually a trait from Dell that is getting really old really fast. It’s bad enough Dell treats me like a second class consumer because I want Ubuntu. But because I’m not American?
Dell are a self-proclaimed Web 2.0 company. Why don’t the corporate heads of Dell understand the Internet isn’t confined to the borders of the USA?
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff54/aikiwolfie/Screenshots/Dellcom-Ubuntu804.png
Aikiwolfie: The VAR Guy thinks Dell is making a “significant” gesture. However, you’ve pointed out a lengthy list of areas — particularly on the international front — where a small U.S. gesture doesn’t help Dell’s cause…
aikiwolfie:
That’s a lot of deep implications in your comment…. mixing the concepts of citizenship with corporate consumerism. I think you just expressed an opinion that you feel global corporate entities should be thought of and be expected to act as representative governments. I think holding onto that image of multi-national corporations is unwise. You aren’t a member of the fictional Dell nation-state.
There are many many examples of global nationals choosing to offer products selectively based solely on market demand. Did you know that in Mexico and South America Coca-Cola is made using real cane sugar but in the US it isn’t generally available…even though the Coca Cola made with cane sugar is preferred in taste tests by Americans?
You know why that is, costs. The sugar cane Coca Cola would have to be sold for more in the stores…but the consumers are extremely price sensitive so even though they like it better..the price bump required to keep the product profitable in the US would be an unsustainable business model. Yes some consumers would pay the higher price..but not enough.
So back to Dell….If Dell isn’t making money from Ubuntu sales..as you have suggested earlier in the comments of a previous post on the Dell situation. Its not necessarily in Dell’s business interest to globalize its Ubuntu effort. It’s one thing to experiment in the small scale with something that is not profitable. It’s quite another to run the numbers and decide its worth scaling up into a global operation as something you can turn a profit on.
We don’t know what it costs Dell to QA an Ubuntu system before it goes out the door at any of its build-to-order factories in the US. We don’t know how to price those manhours at in each of its global factories and we don’t know what the marginal profit per Ubuntu unit is. The financial considerations could vary across each of Dell’s regional units.
But I think the 5 month delay between 9.04 release and Dell putting them on systems may say something important about the internal QA process Dell is using. How much of that time lag was blocking on QA? We don’t know. But I seriously doubt Dell just decided last week to move to 9.04.
Only the other hand, we do have an unnamed source which may or may not be an employee of Dell whispering sweet nothings into the ear of Ubuntu friendly bloggers to encourage them to stoke the hopeful flames in the hearts of the faithful and imploring them to keep watching the horizon about a 2010 globalization effort.
-jef
My point is Jef whenever Dell wishes to make a “gesture” or “reward” the loyalty of it’s customers it’s generally a US centric gesture.
Now when a company like Dell who make a big fuss about being a Web 2.0 company and make a big fuss about their international efforts start ignoring loyal customer in those international markets then those customers get annoyed. And rightly so. If Dell wants to play in a global market. It has to please it’s global customers.
The cost of supporting Ubuntu for Dell isn’t the same as supporting a whole new OS. Dell already supports other Linux distributions and it’s the same testers and engineers doing the work. I know this because one of those engineers, Matt Domsch, spelled it out on IdeaStorm quite some time ago.
That testing team is also quite small. So when Ubuntu 9.04 arrives 5 months late. I don’t get the impression Dell have a commitment to Ubuntu. I get the impression Ubuntu 9.04 was tested as and when the Linux team could make time for it. Clearly the server side of the business they support takes priority. And rightly so. That’s there main job.
So Ubuntu is a side project.
aikiwolfie:
Dell doesn’t ship product from one central location. I think you are making some unwarrented assumptions about homogeneity of business environments and markets to suggest that any company can roll out the same product lineup across the globe and expect to make a profit out of it. You are being naive.
How far does that customer loyality that you speak of go? Are you and others willing to pay an additional mark-up on Ubuntu systems that Dell sales to keep the effort profitable? How much more? If an Ubuntu pre-install ended up costing more than a Windows pre-install of the exact same hardware..in order to ensure that Dell made the same marginal profit on each unit sold as it does for a windows install…how many people would buy the Ubuntu pre-install? Would you? Or would you just buy the lower price point windows pre-install and then install your own operating system?
The sort of loyality that is going to matter for a profit focused company is loyalty that speaks in cash. Its hard for something to be both the bargain option as well as a niche option in a product line-up. Customers of successful niche products tend to be willing to pay a premium for the products they are loyal to. Are the purchasers of Ubuntu systems from Dell following the pattern of a niche product customers? Or are the primarily bargain hunters?
-jef
Umm yeah okay. I think your reading to deeply between the lines and looking for something that isn’t there.
I’ve been a good customer to Dell. Bought a lot of kit over the past few years. I don’t expect to be sold short. That makes me be a not so happy customer.
Which is all getting way past the scope of Works With U.
“5 month delay between 9.04 release and Dell putting them on systems”
9.04 isn’t an LTS release. Their excuse before was they only were going to support LTS releases. What’s their excuse this time?
Who here thinks it will take Dell 5 months to ship Windows 7 after its release?
Do their “Ubuntu” systems ship with Windows logos on them?
Dell’s “support” of Ubuntu is nothing more than a hobby. Some minor project of a low level team with miniscule resources (one part-time intern?).
I have an Ubuntu Dell 1420 n that shipped with Ubuntu 7.04 installed. Everything worked out of the box except WiFi; I had to turn on the switch. I’m happy. I will buy another Dell, probably a netbook, soon.
Dell is making a profit, I hope, because then they will continue to make and sell Linux computers.
Dell can’t release an Ubuntu version until an official release or they will be chasing a moving target. Then they must fit it to their machines. This takes time. Ubuntu must run better than Windows.
I think Dell is doing a good job. I’m tired of all of the whining although it is from a small majority. If you aren’t competent to update Ubuntu, maybe you should run Windows. Or get Ubuntu from another world wide OEM?
Earl
OOPS … small whining minority
Earl
@Earl: I agree 100%. Also, everyone should keep in mind that Ubuntu 9.04 has had serious issues with the Intel graphics used in these netbooks.
@everyone: there is a sweet deal right now for Mini 9’s with Ubuntu, starting @ 200 bucks for US customers (though you really need to stretch it to 245 to get a decent machine IMHO: 8Gb SSD and 1.3 MP camera).
Dell should really sell higher-end laptops like the studio 15 and 17.
Check out the 4 minute “Linux 101″ flash video on the right hand side of the page. They talk up Linux pretty well.
Cost of Linux vs Windows machines: Consider the total cost of ownership over several years of buying a windows machine – don’t forget the cost of all the application software you will need and your antivirus subscription (an ongoing cost). I would be willing to pay a bit more.
As for the desktops, I am amazed that Dell would cease offering an entire product category, even for a few months. For those who want a desktop with pre-installed Linux, this is additional business for the dedicated Linux vendors out there.
“Then they must fit it to their machines. This takes time.”
Ubuntu releases are not some surprising moving target. Not only is every pre-release version publicly available in advance, all of the source code is also available. Every computer manufacturer has months of time before final release to work with the Ubuntu community to ensure top notch support out of the box on the day of release.
Let’s put this in perspective. Dell, with 100 times the revenue of say, RedHat, is only able to release Ubuntu 9.04 on a single machine after 5 months of work. Chew on those numbers.
I am still not sure how commited is Dell with Ubuntu or Linux, or how much they still fear Microsoft. I give you an example.
For the first time I saw Dell publicity on netbooks on the streets here in Spain. They announce a Dell Mini 10v from 249€… but there IS NO word aboud the OS on it. Are they afraid that Ballmer will stop talking to them if they add a note “* For the Ubuntu version”
And then, when you go to the Dell site and you shop for the Dell 10v 249€ you get an Ubuntu on 8GB SSD and the next option is an XP with 160G!! for ‘just’ 279€ (just 30€ more)… AND YOU can’t choose Ubuntu on the 279€ model, SO YOU CAN’T compare the prices of the thing with and without a Windows OS. Is this because some kind of agreement with Microsoft?
WHEN will I get to choose the OS and see how the price changes?
My bet is that they are not going to sell any 249€, is almost as if they don’t wanto to sell them.
@josvazg: it’s been discussed over and over. The cost, to Dell, of producing an ubuntu netbook is NOT cero (even though the software is available free of charge). If they were able to sell them in mass productions, as it happened with the original eeepc’s, then the cost does approach zero.
But I agree with you, all hardware vendors are held back hostage by MS, until they can free themselves, which explains why IBM, Dell, HP, Intel, AMD/ATI and most big players are trying to support/promote Linux to a larger or smaller extent …
Thanks for all the comments, folks. I see a lot of mixed opinions on Dell — particularly readers from outside the U.S. who want far better/more Dell/Ubuntu options. I will continue to offer that feedback to Dell during my briefings with the PC company.
And we’ll continue to point out other system vendors (System76, ZaReason, etc.) that are working hard to meet Ubuntu mobile, desktop and server demand in multiple countries.
@Leo
That’s interesting… I thought once you had a disk image per model for Win/Linux it was just a matter of “burning” one or the other into your systems ‘going out of the door’. It is even easier to do this on Linux, as it does not have the license protections based upon ‘modified hardware’.
AND, once the driver stuff (if any) is shorted out, the cost of one person preparing a Linux image should be even lower to creating the Windows one, because win windows all extras have to be installed BY HAND afterwards (including the PC drivers as well)
(I can understand it could be a bit more expensive at the begining, but now it’s not the begining anymore)
@jozavg: yes, I agree with all you said. But because of the fixed cost of producing the first iso, it is reasonable for them to try to break even sort of soon, and then start having a profit.
In the end, what worries me is that part of the motivation for hardware vendors to support linux is that this makes them look good in the eyes of a worlwide army of geeks who are, either now or in the future, pretty influential in the tech sector. If we bitch against anyone trying to support us, well, this will offset the motivations to give us support, and potentially result in less hardware running Linux.
Dell ubuntu desktop systems by this weekend in the US store according to Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols latest blog.
And while he doesn’t quote the name of his source..but he did say it was a source from inside the Dell corporate fenceline.
-jef
I purchased the Dell Latitude 2100 with Ubuntu 9.04 pre-installed and I am extremely happy with it. Highly recommended.
Do you know if Dell is planning on releasing any more Ubuntu machines in Australia?
@Jef #31: they are evidently planning, because there have been a few version already, coming from different insiders. Still no charm, but there will be news I am sure within a month or two …
FWIW: I ordered yesterday a refurb Dell Mini Vostro 9 with Ubuntu, let’s see how it works! I’ll keep you guys posted
BTW, there is a new high end laptop (Studio XPS 13) now in the US site:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
It’s really nice to see a major manufacturer supporting Linux, but without any ad support, do they really expect them to sell?
You can’t find the Ubuntu systems without looking for them. If you’re in the know, you already know how to install Ubuntu yourself on your computer of choice, and it’s an even easier process than installing Windows so there’s little benefit to a factory install.
There’s no retail presence for these laptops, where giving consumers hands on time might convince them its a good buy.
So only geeks see these laptops with Ubuntu, and the only incentive a geek would have to buy a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled would be a lower price. Which may not even be possible with XP starter edition’s reduced cost, the paid Ubuntu support, and the cost of codec license fees on Ubuntu.
In light of how little profit Dell could hope to get out of Ubuntu, an offering like this is extremely impressive. But they need to make a serious push into getting these systems out in the public eye if they want to pull off a Mac style PC-alternative, but from Dell.
(more interesting models with ubuntu pre-installed would be nice too, how about extending it across the entire lineup, even if they’re still sold on a dell sub-site ghetto)